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MattJB · Apr 9, '13, 4:42 pm

I was told growing up that Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, since we are now under Christ's grace. We no longer follow the laws given to the Israelites in the Old testament. So why do we follow the 10 commandments? Are they not from the Law of the Old Testament, as given to the Israelites?
Just curious. Can someone explain this to me?

bzkoss236 · #2 Apr 9, '13, 4:59 pm

The 10 Commandments are based on the morals of Natural Law, which are forever binding. These are laws that are laid on the hearts of all men (some just ignore them). So, the 10 Commandments are just as valid today as they are back then. They are God's laws, instead of Jewish laws. All of the Jewish laws (circumcision, eating kosher, etc.) are no longer binding because Christ fulfilled the Old Law (referring to the Jewish laws).

Also, Jesus reiterates the 10 Commandments in a simpler 2 Commandment form, which boil down to:
1. Love and worship the one true God
2. Love others as yourself

The first few of the 10 Commandments fit within the first, and the rest fit within the second.

Hope that helps.

Ad Orientem · #3 Apr 9, '13, 5:36 pm

In my experience, Protestants believe in keeping the Ten Commandments, they just don't believe it's necessary for salvation. This ties in with "faith alone" and, for some Protestants, "once saved always saved," usually with double-predestination. We know from Church teaching, however, that some sins are mortal.

vlf7973 · #4 Apr 9, '13, 7:12 pm

I think it's also worth mentioning, the commandment regarding the sabbath is not based in natural law, so Christians do not follow it. However, Catholics are obliged to attend Mass and rest from servile labor on Sunday, but this is due to current Church Law, not because of that commandment or natural law.

R_C · #5 Apr 9, '13, 8:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJB

I was told growing up that Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, since we are now under Christ's grace. We no longer follow the laws given to the Israelites in the Old testament. So why do we follow the 10 commandments? Are they not from the Law of the Old Testament, as given to the Israelites?
Just curious. Can someone explain this to me?

We are not under the Law, but we are still called to fulfill the Law.

Our only commandment is to love, for love fulfills the Law. But since we are poor, imperfect sinners in a world of dark concupiscences, how would we improve if we didn't know where does God wants us to focus on? Even the Apostles provided lists of aspects that would prevent the baptized from reaching the Kingdom of God (remember St. Paul? "Do not be deceived: neither..." etc.).

If we were under the "Law of Moses", we would be asked to do much, much more than just keep up with the 10 Commandments!

fhansen · #6 Apr 9, '13, 8:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJB

I was told growing up that Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, since we are now under Christ's grace. We no longer follow the laws given to the Israelites in the Old testament. So why do we follow the 10 commandments? Are they not from the Law of the Old Testament, as given to the Israelites?
Just curious. Can someone explain this to me?

As scripture and the Church teach, the law is holy, spiritual, and good. Man OTOH, is not spiritual; he's in desparate need of the HS, in fact. Once living in the Spirit, under grace, the law is no longer an enemy or an obstacle. We still need to obey it but now we obey out of love rather than fear/pride/selfish interests. St Basil of Casaerea put it this way:

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

You can read the balanced teachings of the Church regarding the law and grace, the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, the Old Law and the New Law beginning here: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c3a1.htm#1950

Moses613 · #7 Apr 10, '13, 7:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bzkoss236

The 10 Commandments are based on the morals of Natural Law, which are forever binding. These are laws that are laid on the hearts of all men (some just ignore them). So, the 10 Commandments are just as valid today as they are back then. They are God's laws, instead of Jewish laws. All of the Jewish laws (circumcision, eating kosher, etc.) are no longer binding because Christ fulfilled the Old Law (referring to the Jewish laws).

Also, Jesus reiterates the 10 Commandments in a simpler 2 Commandment form, which boil down to:
1. Love and worship the one true God
2. Love others as yourself

The first few of the 10 Commandments fit within the first, and the rest fit within the second.

Hope that helps.

So why are Christians against homosexuality? Incest? Those aren't in the ten. The only sexual sin listed there is adultery. This has always confused me. Christians seem to pick and choose parts of the old testament inconsistently. And if you answer that those are also included in "natural law" (most western liberals would disagree with the first one being against natural law), who decided what is and is not natural law?

bzkoss236 · #8 Apr 10, '13, 9:33 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses613

So why are Christians against homosexuality? Incest? Those aren't in the ten. The only sexual sin listed there is adultery. This has always confused me. Christians seem to pick and choose parts of the old testament inconsistently. And if you answer that those are also included in "natural law" (most western liberals would disagree with the first one being against natural law), who decided what is and is not natural law?

They are a part of Natural law, whether liberals agree or not. You can see by how incest can cause severe deformities and disease, and homosexuality cannot produce offspring. But remember that the Church does not say that having a same sex attraction is sinful, but it is the homosexual acts that are. But so are heterosexual acts, outside of marriage. The issue of homosexuality and incest is reiterated in the NT, so they are still binding, but also because they are part of natural law.

fhansen · #9 Apr 10, '13, 9:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses613

So why are Christians against homosexuality? Incest? Those aren't in the ten. The only sexual sin listed there is adultery. This has always confused me. Christians seem to pick and choose parts of the old testament inconsistently. And if you answer that those are also included in "natural law" (most western liberals would disagree with the first one being against natural law), who decided what is and is not natural law?

The ten commandments aren't an exhaustive moral code near as I can tell. Anyway, The CC teaches that she's been given the authority to make determinations on matters of faith and morals-that she receives those determinations, actually. Individual Catholics have to decide for themselves how closely they'll hew to those teachings.

Moses613 · #10 Apr 10, '13, 10:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bzkoss236

They are a part of Natural law, whether liberals agree or not..

I agree, personally & religiously.

Quote:

You can see by how incest can cause severe deformities and disease, and homosexuality cannot produce offspring. But remember that the Church does not say that having a same sex attraction is sinful, but it is the homosexual acts that are..

Sounds similar to the Jewish approach.

Quote:

But so are heterosexual acts, outside of marriage..

Again, I agree, but I would have asked the same question about that. In fact, I thought about it, but didn't want to complicate the question too much.

Quote:

The issue of homosexuality and incest is reiterated in the NT, so they are still binding, but also because they are part of natural law.

I think this is the real answer I was looking for. I didn't know that they were reiterated in the NT. Now it makes more sense to me.

Moses613 · #11 Apr 10, '13, 10:32 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhansen

The ten commandments aren't an exhaustive moral code near as I can tell. Anyway, The CC teaches that she's been given the authority to make determinations on matters of faith and morals-that she receives those determinations, actually. Individual Catholics have to decide for themselves how closely they'll hew to those teachings.

Receives in what sense? Prophetically?

Your point is actually quite germane to my question. My question is not as strong on Catholics, who believe that the Church sets doctrine. It was stronger on Protestants, many of whom believe in "only what the Bible says." Still, that was also answered by the previous respondent, who said that these things are repeated in the NT.

fhansen · #12 Apr 10, '13, 11:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moses613

Receives in what sense? Prophetically?

Yes, the Church considers her teachings to be a matter of revelation and her understanding of that revelation to be a gift.

PJM · #13 Apr 10, '13, 12:15 pm

Quote:

=MattJB;10601514]I was told growing up that Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, since we are now under Christ's grace. We no longer follow the laws given to the Israelites in the Old testament. So why do we follow the 10 commandments? Are they not from the Law of the Old Testament, as given to the Israelites?
Just curious. Can someone explain this to me?

Hi Matt,

Actually NO

There is "THEE LAW" = the ten Commnadments

and then "the laws"; sometimes refurred to as the "laws of Moses" which expanded GOD"S Laws by more than 300 additional demands; many dietary and hygene related, and very prudently grounded for THOSE times.

Later the priest became consumed with legalistic issues and expanded beyond what was reasonable and necessary, simply because they could do so.

God's Laws, like God's Seven Sacraments can never be denied, or altered. Certainly our understanding of them can continue to grow as guided by the Holy Spirit; but just as Yahweh wrote the Commandments on tablets of stone to make us aware that they are Eternal Mandates. So too His Sacraments as a source of necessary grace and forgivieness can never be denined.

Essentially this is because God does NOT change. The God of the OT is the same God of the NT.

What was evil then remains evil today. Judgment then and now must remain Fair and equally Just. Because we are NOW under grace, God has every right to be even more critical of us in present times because of the aids of grace Offered to us.

And as a FYI: the ten Commandments are not the list of the "10 possible sins". They are the ten catagories of sins possible. read maathew chapter five to see what is meant.

yasure2cents · #14 Apr 10, '13, 5:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJB

I was told growing up that Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, since we are now under Christ's grace. We no longer follow the laws given to the Israelites in the Old testament. So why do we follow the 10 commandments? Are they not from the Law of the Old Testament, as given to the Israelites?
Just curious. Can someone explain this to me?

hello-

i was talking about this last night at a bible study--

all though saint paul said that the law was a tutor..THE LETTER OF ST. PAUL TO THE GALATIANS
biblescripture.net/Galatians.html

This Epistle of St. Paul to the Galatians presents the theme of justification by faith in ... 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a .... 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we ...

so as the law or the Torah-- has not gone away-- only the ceremonial laws, or the animal sacrificial laws for sin or covenant failure.

some groups or domination's say Christ nailed the law to the cross-- and there for we are not under the law..

BUT other Groups say that the "curse of the law" was nailed to the cross,

and we are living out the moral aspects of the law with the help of the Holy Spirit, and with out the necessity of animal sacrifice

and as you know by now the catholic church has over a 1,000 laws that are considered , either mortal or venial, or ordinances that are "required" to be able to go to mass and receive the Eucharist or communion. and to be in good standing..

finally it is said that there were 613 rules in the O.T. that required obedience to follow

so it can be difficult in this "modern age to discover what is "man -made sins or laws "to follow-- because each group add's to the torah of God, seemly to make it better--and then they say-- Christ established this or Christ established that law .

and it is interesting to see all the different "opinions" on this and other forums

Bayoubeefmaster · #15 Apr 10, '13, 7:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJB

I was told growing up that Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses, since we are now under Christ's grace. We no longer follow the laws given to the Israelites in the Old testament. So why do we follow the 10 commandments? Are they not from the Law of the Old Testament, as given to the Israelites?
Just curious. Can someone explain this to me?

They are still commandments of God. They are natural law that can't be undone. Jesus taught these commandments as well. He says that we should keep the commandments and love one another. Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. We can't just completely throw out the old law.

working4christ2

Thursday, April 25, 2013

patrick j miron "almost right" Why do we follow the 10 commandments? There is "THEE LAW" = the ten Commnadments

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