working4christ2

cwltexas · day, 6:48 am

I converted at age 17, 1973, rural Parish, it was a mission Parish, Priests from Ireland, the "head" Priest taught the Adult Conversion Class, I think that is what it was called, it lasted 6 months, met once a week for an hour, Father "encouraged" us to attend Mass regularly of course, we had to write one or two papers, if I remember correctly. I didn't consider this process excessive or arduous in the least. We had baptism, first Confession, first Communion all on the same day.

quiet52 · #19 Today, 3:54 pm

Thank you for your positive post, Kal. It sounds to me you had a wonderful attitude about your journey into the Catholic Church. I hope you're still thoroughly enjoying being a Catholic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal2012

................ It's not just "go to a couple classes and you are a member of the church". Even though I've been around Catholicism for years and the concepts weren't unknown, RCIA wasn't a waste of my time. I ended up learning a lot and felt prepared to be Catholic at Easter Vigil.

Unfortunately, in my experience with previously-baptized non-Catholics, and with Catholics who hadn't yet received Reconciliation, First Eucharist or Confirmation, this is the expectation a good portion of them have about their preparation for the sacraments. They've been told by various people they don't "need" the same preparation as the unbaptized, and they seem to feel entitled to an abbreviated process. I did "adjust" the requirements for some, but I have found that most do not know what they do not know (or misunderstand) about the teachings of the Church. I've seen some unbaptized candidates know far more about the Bible and the faith than the baptized know.

Even after listing the minimally required sessions, I've received resentment and reluctance. Most changed their tune, however, as they embraced the process. Also, the participants in the gruop who know less appreciate hearing from those who have more experience and knowledge. It is simply unrealistic to expect any process to be perfectly "tailor made" for each participant. It is also unrealistic to expect that in any given parish, a clergy member is available to prepare each person privately -- that rarely happens.

Here is one story about one woman's sense of "entitlement": Married to a Catholic, she was raised in one of the mainstream Protestant faith expressions and expected to become Catholic within a few weeks. To say that she was grouchy about having to wait until Easter, or even having to attend RCIA at all, is an understatement, and I could tell she had some misunderstandings. I eventually learned she did not accept several of the Church's teachings, such as the communion of saints, and she was stubborn and non-curious. She insisted that many Catholics didn't accept everything. After one session, she was fuming angry toward me, not because of anything I did against her, but because she didn't like what I was teaching. Late that evening she e-mailed me that she was too tired at the end of her workday and wanted to attend a Sunday program. I found one at a nearby parish and arranged it for her, with the permission of the pastor. She attended a few times, and then I received another email from her, informing me she had decided to convert to Buddhism, because it was easier than Catholicism.

Of course, the parishioners she and her husband complained to about RCIA, and about me, have no idea about what was really going on, and they never will no matter what their assumptions are -- this is one of the unacknowledged crosses we leaders bear. This woman's husband has since come to me to apologize, and to share his sadness that his wife has rejected Christ. He is growing in his own faith journey.

It is impossible for the RCIA leaders to know exactly what each participant needs (vs. what they want or demand). Although we do our best to adjust the requirements for each person in the group based on their prior formation in faith, which some people are quite vague about, it is better for us to err on the side of caution rather than to cave in to each participant's whims.

Quote:

I like Usige's ideas for improving the process. I wasn't at the same place as some of the members of my RCIA class and would have preferred to "skip over" some of the topics we covered. However, by realizing that I had accepted some of the concepts that others were struggling with helped me to see where Catholic thought was already integrated into my belief system. (Does that make sense?)

It makes a lot of sense.
Always be grateful for the faith you were brought up with!
You probably helped to reinforce the teachings for the other RCIA members.

Quote:

Like others said, as an adult waiting a year seemed kind of ridiculous. However, overall, I think that Catholics are more correct in the way that we admit new members than the way it's done in other communities. It is a huge decision and it shouldn't be taken lightly. I'm glad that it isn't "too easy" to be a Catholic. I've seen and experienced "too easy" and membership is pretty meaningless

Have you considered being on the RCIA team?

PJM · #20 Today, 5:05 pm

Quote:

=DavidFilmer;10664474]I was RCIA director at my former Parish, so I know a bit about it. I designed my own curriculum based on the Catechism (or, more specifically, Peter Kreeft's Catholic Christianity). The program was six months long, one hour a week. We would start in late September and wrap up by Easter.

I was once at a gathering of other RCIA directors, and it seems the typical program was a year to eighteen months, with some as long as two years. This seems like a high barrier to become Catholic, especially for someone who has transportation difficulties, time constraints (maybe they work evenings and could not ever attend meetings), or personal difficulties (single parents, etc). This also requires a fairly high commitment from the sponsors.

In the old days, converts received instruction from the Parish priest, and this is still an option - that's how my wife and I were received. Our instruction was brief (but, then again, I could cite Ott, and, besides, we were coming from a traditional Anglican communion, which is like being Catholic without a Pope). But I think typical instruction was only a few weeks.

Then, in an attempt to be more like the Early Church, we implement this big, time consuming process, one-size-fits-all, and run 99% of our converts through it. What next, public confession?

I've given it a lot of thought. There are good arguments on both sides, but I have come to believe that RCIA presents an unnecessarily high barrier of entry into the Church. I don't see why converts need to know much more than the typical cradle Catholics sitting in the pews in order to begin participating in the Sacramental life of the Church.

My dear friend David,

I'm a trained; tested, experienced [20+ years], and certified Marian Catechist who studied for many years in order to get certified and teach. I taught RCIA for 3 years too.

Now retired and working from home I have developed a SUPPLEMENTAL to RCIA couse called: BUILDING BLOCKS OF OUR CATHOLIC FAITH, which I mail out FREE of all cost, of course..

WHY?

Because many [perhaps even most] RCIA Curriculums simply lack the time to really TEACH in depth, not only what we Catholics DO believe, but also PROVE and Provide the evidence that verifies it.

Our Catholic Faith is TWO THOUSAND years old

It has numerious Doctrines and Dogma's and much Sacred Tradition. In these HIGHLY secular times in which we live one MUST be well-informed to survive the Secular Humanisn; MESISM, New Age; Biased media and peer-pressure. One SIMPLY cannot know "too much." And as Father John Hardon often told us: "you can't share what you yourself don't have." [AMEN!]

With thousands of differing and competing "christian" faiths; one simply cannot hide form the uniformed; misinformed and aggressive non-Catholic-christian and Fundalmentalist competition.

One MUST know WELL our Faith to:
Live it

Share it when God presents the opportunity

& Defend it when necessary.

So your alternative to RCIA is?

My advice David is to thing SUPPLEMENTAL.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me
Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

2Thes.1: 5 “This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering “

It Ain't easy because it Ain't supposed to be easy. Amen

Pat/PJM

1patterson · #21 Today, 5:35 pm

[quote=PJM;10668234]My dear friend David,

I'm a trained; tested, experienced [20+ years], and certified Marian Catechist who studied for many years in order to get certified and teach. I taught RCIA for 3 years too.

Now retired and working from home I have developed a SUPPLEMENTAL to RCIA couse called: BUILDING BLOCKS OF OUR CATHOLIC FAITH, which I mail out FREE of all cost, of course..

WHY?

Because many [perhaps even most] RCIA Curriculums simply lack the time to really TEACH in depth, not only what we Catholics DO believe, but also PROVE and Provide the evidence that verifies it.

Our Catholic Faith is almost -- but not quite-

at 310 the catholic faith seperated from the assembly that Jesus and Yawah were part of also saint paul-- but you quote saint paul all the time, how has the Holy Spirit anointing worked for you ?? got any signs and wonders following?

TWO THOUSAND years old:

minus (310ad 1565ad)

D It has numerious Doctrines and Dogma's and much Sacred Tradition. In these HIGHLY secular times in which we live one MUST be well-informed to survive the Secular Humanisn; MESISM, New Age; Biased media and peer-pressure.

One SIMPLY cannot know "too much."

And as Father John Hardon often told us: "you can't share what you yourself don't have." [AMEN!]

With thousands of differing and competing "christian" faiths;

Actually there really are not "thousands of differing and competing christian faiths--

but the roman catholic religion does offer the most ceremonies and mortal and veinal sins available

and it really is true-- that the Sheep of Jesus's really do hear his voice..

and some times they are in a catholic church -- and some times they are in a christian congaration or assembly

one simply cannot hide form the uniformed; misinformed and aggressive non-Catholic-christian and Fundalmentalist competition. , or catholic tradition

One MUST know WELL our Faith to:
Live it

Share it when God presents the opportunity

& Defend it when necessary.

So your alternative to RCIA is?

My advice David is to thing SUPPLEMENTAL.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

2Thes.1: 5 “This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering “

hello you are right the roman catholic religion takes a lot of effort to defend, now if we could only figure out what catholic religion Jesus said he was a part of -- because Jesus said "if you followed this commands , then his yoke was easy and light"

http://youtu.be/ofDv99fuFdQ

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ofDv99fuFdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It Ain't easy because it Ain't supposed to be easy. Amen

Jesus didn't say it ain't supposted to be hard-- he said it was light and easy-- but it is helpful to recognize who the enemy is-- because catholics seem to be trained that it is other bible believers--

and this is a deception of religion and the devil

Evan · #46 Mar 5, '13, 12:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozell1

In Acts, it says the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus; is it sufficient just to baptize in the name of Jesus or does it need the Trinitarian blessing? I was having this discussion with a protestant and it left me thinking if the disciples actually followed Jesus' commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

As I understand it, doing something "in the name of ...somebody..." meant doing it by their authority. Like, I sentence you in the name of the King, or Open in the name of the law. So to baptize in the name of Jesus would be doing it according to his authority. And he said "Baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit".

1answer · #47 Mar 8, '13, 11:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan

As I understand it, doing something "in the name of ...somebody..." meant doing it by their authority. Like, I sentence you in the name of the King, or Open in the name of the law. So to baptize in the name of Jesus would be doing it according to his authority. And he said "Baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit".

right on--

in hebrews 6-- the baptism of idenification is one of the 6 types of water dunking that is referred to--

after the water baptism then Jesus is supposted to baptize you with the holy spirit

PJM · #48 Mar 8, '13, 4:06 pm

Quote:

=1answer;10437436]thanks -- for this string -- to demenstrate the difficulity of recognizing that the mikvah- in the Hebrew tradition was was being performed by John - as also referenced in hebrews 6- where it references moveing on to the foundations o "baptisms"
it is necessary to to read about the "hebrew roots" of this God made ceremony,

to avoid developing imaginary and man made understanding of what the scripture means.

as peter said "be mikvah in the water of repentence and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,

this is why paul said in acts 19 what were you "baptised" or mikvah in?

so he got them mikvah in the Holy Spirit-- and there is a difference-- between the two baptism's or mikvah- other wise -- why bother

so -- obviously-- john the baptis -- what Mikvah in water as was the tridition in the religious ceremony-- i suggest that the readers of this string-- research and learn what the baptism or mikvah is all about--

so you don't become mis-lead or deceived

BE CAREFUL HERE!

John 3: 5 "Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Matthew 28: 19-20 "[16-20] "And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

FIRST JESUS SAYS "DO IT!"; THEN TELLS HOW!

The ONLY relation to Jewsh Tradition is through circumission with is NOW overriden by Christian Baptism.

The Old Covenant by the New Covennt.

God Bles,
pat/PJM

working4christ2

Thursday, April 25, 2013

Re: Is RCIA too great a barrier of entry into the Church? patrick j moron working4christ2

Re: Who Baptized John the Baptist? patrick j moron-- working4christ2